Guy shoots down a drone, gets arrested, but the latter is irrelevant.

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/04/2016 at 11:39 • Filed to: None

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DISCUSSION (57)

Frank Grimes > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 11:45

I like how rednecks are so concerned about their privacy and so arrogant to think they are important enough to be spied on.

Ash78, voting early and often > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 11:46

What's wrong with cheap .22 shot shells? Sure, they destroy your rifling, but the guns are cheap to begin with. And probably make a lot less noise than a 12-ga...

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Ash78, voting early and often
03/04/2016 at 11:51

If you are a competent shot you don’t even need shot shells but there are some gun ethics issues there

Ash78, voting early and often > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro)
03/04/2016 at 11:52

I'm always concerned about neighbors and your trajectory. With tiny shot, it's irrelevant past maybe 100 yards, so fire away!

Sneaky Pete > Frank Grimes
03/04/2016 at 11:54

Never heard of peeping toms?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Ash78, voting early and often
03/04/2016 at 11:55

I believe the federal law is you can’t discharge a firearm within 500 (about 160 yards) feet of someone elses dewlling, and you cannot shot across a roadway. So you probably shouldn’t shoot at drones at all, if you’re in a crowded area. That said, I think you’re right in that using small shot is a much better idea. A little .410 with some #8 or #9 would be perfect.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 11:56

These are stupid, they are just shot shells. My local dealer is selling a different kind of “anti-drone” shotshells that deploy into a giant net. The idea is they tangle up it’s rotors and crash it.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Frank Grimes
03/04/2016 at 11:58

When I worked at OnStar back in the mid-2000s I was on the welcome call team and had to explain to people “Nobody gives a shit about what you’re doing in your truck. We don’t actively track without a subpoena or other court order.”

Like just because they could afford a $50,000 SUV they were someone important.

BigBlock440 > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 12:06

It’s just a differently printed box, and just like zombie loads, people are going to buy them to put on their shelf and never use them.

BorkBorkBjork > Ash78, voting early and often
03/04/2016 at 12:09

They also make rubber and plastic shot shells for 12 gauge. That would be more than enough to knock one of these drones out of the air, and would be practically harmless when the extra shot falls back to earth.

Takuro Spirit > Sneaky Pete
03/04/2016 at 12:09

IF ANYBODY’S GONNA SPY ON MY SISTER NEKKID ITS GONNA BE ME

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 12:10

As a person who shoots shotgun as an intercollegiate sport I am intrigued. As a UAS tech I am appalled.

Ash78, voting early and often > BorkBorkBjork
03/04/2016 at 12:11

Drones, G8 protesters, all the usual suspects...

Sneaky Pete > Takuro Spirit
03/04/2016 at 12:13

This is Kentucky, no spying needed.

McMike > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 12:19

They do have less than lethal rounds for times like this.

http://www.thenetgunstore.com/2014/11/20/net…

Frank Grimes > Sneaky Pete
03/04/2016 at 12:19

i guess rednecks are always naked with their chewing tobacco spit flecked Browning camo drapes open.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > BigBlock440
03/04/2016 at 12:23

Oh, I agree. I always see the Zombie ammo and shake my head. But yeah, I guess it’s a cool box for some #2 shot.

But I buy ammo to shoot, not to look at, so I don’t need fancy boxes. I guess it all depends in where your priorities are.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Takuro Spirit
03/04/2016 at 12:24

This needs more stars.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Frank Grimes
03/04/2016 at 12:29

There was a guy who shot one down about a year ago I think, some guys were using it to take pictures of his daughter while she was sunbathing at their pool.

Also, I don’t chew so my Browning camo drapes are clean as a whistle.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 12:31

I wish my school had a trap/skeet team. I love clay shooting.

Also, which part of the story appalls you? That the guy shot at the drone? Or that the operators were using the drone for potentially nefarious activities?

 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 12:31

I think one of these would work nicely. You can then watch a flaming inferno hovering back to its owner.

Kinja'd!!!

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Frank Grimes
03/04/2016 at 12:33

I think this can be said about the 99% too. Like do you really have shit the government wants? Like really...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 12:34

I read the story and I think the guy had a very well thought out approach to the whole situation - the drone wasn’t flying across his property, it was just sitting there hovering. That sounds awfully suspicious to me, like they are trying to spy on him for some purpose. And when he decided to shoot it down, he used a shotgun with #8 shot vs. a heavier load or a rifle which has the potential to cause damage to people/property way down range if he missed. I think the only thing I might have done first is call the police to report the activity and see if they can handle it.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 12:38

Shooting it down. After building/repairing hundreds of drones for people, I’ve only had one come back because it was shot at.

Because of the new FAA regulations, if a registered drone is shot down, and was operating in non-regulated airspace, the guy who shot it just gave himself a 20 year prison sentence.

Because as the regulations sit, congratulations, you’ve just shot a civil aircraft.

Mattbob > Ash78, voting early and often
03/04/2016 at 12:40

you could probably down a drone with a paintball gun or a soccer ball depending on how high it is.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 12:44

What defines regulated air space? Does the air space over my yard/property count, and to what altitude?

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 12:51

Believe it or not, you do not own the airspace above your house. The FAA does. And it depends on where you live.

For pilots, there’s a map called a sectional that defines the regulated areas. Unregulated areas are called class G or E airspace, as long as you aren’t near a controlled airport, but drones are not allowed over 400ft anyway.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 12:56

This intrigues me. So there’s nothing to prevent someone from flying a drone over my property with a camera to spy on me or anything like that?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 12:59

I liked the “step onto my yard and there’ll be another shooting” part.

DoYouEvenShift > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 13:05

Kinja'd!!!

Once it lands in the yard, its up to a couple large dogs what happens to it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 13:05

I’m ok with that. 4 sketchy guys roll up to my house after I shot down a drone they were using to spy on me with and I’d probably do the same thing.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 13:20

I’m not a fan of guns, but I’m 100% on this guy’s side. I hope all charges against him get dropped.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 13:29

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/20…

Charges dropped.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 13:33

So does that mean that if the window is open in my second-floor bedroom, that my neighbor is free to fly a drone through it? Or that he is allowed to fly a drone directly outside that window if it’s closed, since it’s airspace that I do not own?

Sam > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 13:44

My guess is that if you can prove that they were spying on you, you would likely win the court case.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 13:47

This isn’t as cut-and-dried as you would think. The shooter was cleared of all charges without the judge reviewing all of the evidence. Telemetry data shows the quadcopter was at 272 ft and it was moving over 35 mph when it was shot, not hovering as the shooter claimed.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/20…

I can understand how people could be confused. It’s hard to judge speed, height, and location of small flying objects. Every R/C pilot learns this first-hand, usually through a series of crashes caused by misjudging speed, direction, and distance.

Some may say the shooter would be a better judge of these things since it looks like he hunts birds, but I would say otherwise. Bird hunters (myself included) are really good at judging direction and speed, but aren’t much better than the average joe at judging distance to something that is airborne, especially when they aren’t intimately familiar with the size of the object being observed. It’s easy for someone to mistake a large, fast-moving object for a close, slow-moving object. It’s very difficult to put actual numbers to the distances when the object is in the air.

The owner of the quadcopter has filed a civil suit seeking restitution.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/04/2016 at 14:20

Uh, I guess? Haha. One of the other caveats to drone usage is you cannot fly them in a “densely populated area with risks of harming persons or property"

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 14:23

Not really, no. No more than the police can fly a helicopter over your property with sensing gear, and no more than a person outside your window with a camera.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Sam
03/04/2016 at 14:24

This is mostly true.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 14:40

Ok, this is where it gets interesting - if a person is on my property with a camera looking through my window I can take certain actions. Obviously it depends on the state I’m living in and other factors, but I have some sort of recourse ranging from calling the police to shooting them in the face.

As for the police flying a helicopter over my property with sensing gear, technically the only time they could do that is if they have a subpoena or a warrant. I don’t see that as being any different than a wiretap or anything like that.

So coming back around, I’m not sure how a drone hovering over my property spying on me is any different than a person with a camera on my property.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 15:06

This is where it gets murky. There have been court rulings for both sides of the argument, and people are using several previous court rulings with different outcomes as precedents.

A police force in Texas won a court case because they used a drone to discover some illegals in their own home, without a warrant.

In Florida, a police helicopter found a pot house by flying over it with a camera and some infared at about 200ft. They lost the court battle. It’s been the same for regular operators as well some go one way, some go the other. Both have agreed that the airspace is not yours.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 15:15

Makes sense. And as with most legal battles there’s almost always a precedence, and circumstances to be considered.

To be clear, I’m not advocating you can or should “own” the air space over your home, in so far as you shouldn’t be able to go out with a gun and shoot down police helicopters or aircraft or even drones passing over your property.

But I believe you have a right to privacy from unwanted snooping by a civilian drone operator. Now along those lines, I think the first course of action is to call the police. But my guess is that most if not all police departments are incapable of handling this situation, i.e. tracking down the drones operator if it’s controlled from a long range or somehow autonomous. In that case, I think it should be legal to shoot down the drone so long as it’s done in a safe manner, such as the gentleman in the article did (clear field of fire, knowing what’s down range, using a shotgun with light shot vs. a rifle).

Snuze: Needs another Swede > TheRealBicycleBuck
03/04/2016 at 15:23

Interesting. I’ve been responding to this in the context that the drone was basically hovering with a camera over this guys yard like he was (potentially) spying on him. If that were the case (spying) I think the homeowner has every right to shoot down the drone in a safe manner (which I think he did - clear shot, using #8 shot vs. a rifle or something).

However you’re right that it’s hard to judge these things. I’m an avid sporting clay shooter and I still screw up sometimes judging speed and distance. My thought, though, is if you’re going to be operating one around peoples houses, maybe go knock on some doors and tell people you’re flying a drone around the area.

I’ve been having an interesting discussion with Flyboy in another thread about civilian airspace rights (hint - you don’t have any) so technically nobody can stop you from flying your drone over their house. And if it’s a large enough drone to be registered, you’re facing up to 20 years in prison if you do blast it out of the sky when the operator isn’t doing anything nefarious with it. I dunno, just some things to consider, I guess.

Also, 272 ft. is 90 yard shot. Not to shabby.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 15:25

I agree as well. They are being registered, and hoping to add the same technology as big aircraft called ADS-B. (Automatic Dependant Surveillance Broadcast) Point your phone at it and it will give you the registration number.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/04/2016 at 15:38

Huh, I didn’t know about that. That’s very cool, and will hopefully help avoid incidents like this in the future.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Snuze: Needs another Swede
03/04/2016 at 16:11

“My thought, though, is if you’re going to be operating one around peoples houses, maybe go knock on some doors and tell people you’re flying a drone around the area.”

It’s a nice thought, but it is an unrealistic task. A Phantom, the model shot down, has a range of over a kilometer and can be configured to fly much further. In the course of a regular flight, he could cross dozens, potentially hundreds of properties. Then there are the situations where aircraft may be visible from the ground but may not cross property lines, such as the other shooting in California . In that case, the aircraft didn’t even have a camera, something the shooter didn’t realize when he took the shot. He even said “I thought it was a CIA surveillance device.”

I think people need to realize that there are aircraft flying over them all the time and that any of those could be capturing imagery. That imagery will often end up in a public place such as Google Maps. Here’s are some of my neighbor’s houses, courtesy of the parish (county):

Kinja'd!!!

They also need to realize that it’s legal to capture these images, they can be taken from a variety of platforms (including UAVs), and they can be taken from a distance where the homeowner wouldn’t even know they were being watched.

wiffleballtony > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/06/2016 at 22:27

The only violation I see is discharge of a fire arm within city limits.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > wiffleballtony
03/06/2016 at 23:10

The drone was at 270 ft; not exactly buzzing the family picnic.

wiffleballtony > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/07/2016 at 08:35

That’s a pretty good shot then. 90 yards on a moving target.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > wiffleballtony
03/07/2016 at 09:48

Yeah, well, if you look at the guy’s picture, he looks like someone who ought to be a good shot, or ought to shut up.

wiffleballtony > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/07/2016 at 10:08

Looks like he’s double aught.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > wiffleballtony
03/07/2016 at 11:51

Great pun!

Where is ForSweden when we need him?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/07/2016 at 12:44

As I type this, multiple helicopters are hovering over my house. A call to 9-1-1 tells me that there was a hit-and-run, yada-yada. I police helicopter, I can understand, but also a news chopper. Disturbing my peace. Anyhow, can you estimate their altitude? That’s my one-story house eave.

Kinja'd!!!

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/07/2016 at 13:18

Less than 1000 ft. Not lower than 500ft.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/07/2016 at 13:36

It appears to me that those two choppers have zero vertical separation and not more than 500 feet or so of horizontal separation. The larger helicopter on the right is a law enforcement agency chopper. Sherrif’s Department, I think.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/07/2016 at 13:56

Yea, sometimes they’ll be really close. The news chopper is always going to be higher than the police chopper

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Flyboy is FAA certified insane
03/07/2016 at 16:18

Boy, it couldn’t have been higher by very much.

This is what they were working on. Didn’t catch the guy.